CRYSTAL HEATHER ASHTON:

(In the presence of the jury)

RE-EXAMINED BY MR. BECKMAN

[...]

Page 11.67
    all sorts of parts and this flight of ideas is racing through
    his brain, and he is now one character, now another but he
    has it cleverly constructed into one big plan, which is not
    unusual, one comes across a delusion with a lot of characters
    in it.
Q.  Can you help me as to this finally - I said "finally" once
    before, I am sorry.  Page 120, that is the application form. 
    You remember it has been said he was highly intelligent,
    secretive and so on.  How does it affect your analysis if at
    one and the same time he has put "Commander Nemo" - I think
    it is "Captain Nemo" - at the top and signing "Panos
    Koupparis"?   A.  Well, it is obviously not a rational thing
    to do.
Q.  Does it indicate to you someone who does not know what he is
    doing or someone who is clearly trying to disguise his
    identity?   A.  Someone who is not fully knowing what he is
    doing.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON:  Did you say you were a psychiatrist?  I
    thought you ---   A.  No, I am not a psychiatrist.
Q.  I thought you said you were; you said you were not a
    psychiatrist?   A.  No, I said I am not.
MR. BECKMAN:  How would you describe yourself, so we get it    
    right?
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON:  You told us at the beginning that you
    are a psychopharmacologist, you are a consultant physician of
    30 or 40 years' experience.
MR. BECKMAN:  Yes, and that Dr. D'Orban who we saw and know - you
    have heard of Dr. D'Orban, I take it?   A.  By repute, yes.

Page 11.68
Q.  By repute he is an excellent man?   A.  Yes.
Q.  And Professor West?   A.  Yes.
Q.  When they both say in a matter relating to drugs they would
    go for expert help to someone like you, would you have reason
    to disagree with that?   A.  No.
Q.  If a matter has a drugs aspect and needs expert assistance,
    who would a psychiatrist go to for help?   A.  They do go to
    a psychopharmacologist and I do get requests from
    psychiatrists for advice about drug matters.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON:  There is just one thing about which I
    want to ask you because I am troubled about one aspect of
    your evidence; the rest of it I think I understand.
    Hypomania does not mean a man is insane in legal terms,
    because otherwise that might have drastic consequences for
    this man; you understand that.   That is what I have been
    told by the psychiatrist.   Do you agree with that?
    A.  Yes, I mean, there is a range of mental conditions that
    go from normality on a probably smooth spectrum up to
    madness.  It is a matter of definition where you put it.
Q.  Hypomania is not as florid as mania and, it is said, below
    that.   A.  Yes.
Q.  Otherwise the jury might have to consider whether this man
    was guilty but insane; do you understand?   A. I understand.
Q.  That is absolutely out of the case, I am glad to tell you.  
    Are you saying people suffering from hypomania cannot commit
    a crime?  That may be your view.   I do not believe you are
    because otherwise the world would be very dangerous place. 
    A.  No, I am saying they are not always in a position to

Page 11.69
    understand in the terms we rationally think, consequences
    and the moral side of what they are doing.   They have an
    overwhelming ---
Q.  I fully understand that.   I think that entirely tallies with
    what Dr. D'Orban told us.
MR. BECKMAN:  Can I ask something out of that?
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON:  I thought it was risky for me to ask
    the question, but I suppose so.  I have not got away with it
    yet.  Please do not say "finally" three times this time.
MR. BECKMAN:  I have forgotten what I want to ask.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON:  Perhaps you do not.   (Pause)
MR. BECKMAN:  The word "intent"; we are here dealing with crimes
    of specific intent, both of them, do you follow?   A.  Yes.
Q.  Obviously I do not want you to go into the meaning of
    intent - that is a matter for my Lord and the jury - but in
    so far as intent has an English meaning, can you relate it to
    the sort of - you said a drug induced state of hypomania. 
    Can we relate it to that?   How would you relate the question
    of intent as a matter of English to a state of hypomania that
    is a conscious, willing, deliberate intent to do something?  
    A.  I would say that it was not conscious or willing and that
    you may be very involved in a fantasy world; in fact you
    would not translate that world into total action, so that
    although you may say you were going to do it and make
    threats, things, I don't think you would ever actually do it,
    and it is not an aspect that would come into your mind.  If
    you were involved in a grandiose plan you wouldn't be

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    thinking, "Do I intend to do this?"   You lack free will
    really.
Q.  One other matter I want to ask you about, because my Lord
    referred to the question of consequences that can follow and
    which does not arise in this case:  from the beginning the
    evidence you gave - as opposed to those who suggested some
    form of endogenous hypomania - the evidence you gave is a
    drug induced state which is similar to hypomania.   A.  Yes.
Q.  Provided drugs are no longer there, is that a temporary or
    permanent state?   A.  A temporary state; with the drugs no
    longer there the condition should not be.
(The witness withdrew)