Ref: A00-300995 Case No. 871626 Macpherson II
Volume X, Pages 68-72, Tuesday 27th June, 1989
(In the presence of the jury)
JASON KOUPPARIS: Sworn
Examined by Mr. Beckman
Q. What is your full name? A. Jason Koupparis.
Q. Where do you live? A. Twelve Strickland Court, Peckham.
Q. How old are you? A. Twenty.
Q. What is your occupation? A. Sales assistant.
Q. You are the youngest brother of Panos and Andre, who has
already given evidence? A. Yes.
Q. You all lived together, I believe, with Panos but he got
married when you were about nine or ten years' old? A. Yes,
that's right, about nine or ten.
Q. When they were in England, before they went back to Cyprus,
did you see Panos and his wife about once a week? A. Yes,
that's right, on the Sundays.
Q. The whole family got together? A. Yes.
Q. During that time, as far as you could tell, was his marriage
a happy one? A. Yes, I would say it was.
Q. What was Panos like? What was he like in his attitude
towards your mother? A. Very kind and loving, very warm.
He would help her out.
Q. How did he treat the family generally? A. He treated us
very lovingly, really nice.
Q. Who was it who looked after the family when your father died?
A. I would say my brother Panos.
Q. Did he take an interest in your school work, that sort of
thing? A. Yes, he did. When I had a problem he would help
me out with it.
Q. Take you on holdiay? A. Yes.
Q. Was he ever unwilling to help you? A. No.
Q. We know that he went to Cyprus when you were about 15 years'
old. A. Yes.
Q. And then about three years later he came back. A. Yes,
that's right.
Q. Did you find him the same person? A. No, I didn't find him
the same at all.
Q. In what way was he different? A. He wore a tracksuit
instead of a suit.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON: It is not very easy for me to hear.
A. His dress was completely different.
MR. BECKMAN: I think you said he wore a tracksuit instead of a
suit. A. That's right, and trainers.
Q. Had he used to wear that sort of thing before? A. No, he
was a suit man.
Q. Conventionally dressed? A. Yes.
Q. So his clothing changed; what about his personality?
A. That also changed.
Q. In what way? A. He was more active, more aggressive
towards us; his mentality was more like one of the teenagers.
Q. You say he was more active, more aggressive. How did he
behave towards your mother? A. He would often - when she
would suggest things to him he would become very angry with
her.
Q. Had he ever done that before? A. No, not like that.
Q. Did he go out at night? A. Yes, he would go out at nights.
Q. How dressed? A. Dressed wearing a pair of dark glasses,
black hat and black glove, and dark or white suit.
Q. He would go out with whom? A. By himself and he would
meet some friends, teenage ---
Q. Who were the friends? A. Teenagers.
Q. Had he done that sort of thing before, go out at night
dressed in a bizarre fashion and go out with teenagers?
A. No.
Q. Previously was he generous in buying you things or not?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. When he returned on this occasion was he? A. No, I
wouldn't say he was as generous, although he did buy us a few
drinks.
Q. Do you recall a particular occasion about burning paper and
soot? A. Yes, I do.
Q. Can you tell us about it? A. Well, we was all in our
living room and he got some paper and burnt it and then got
the ashes, and I think he rubbed his hands all over it like
this (indicating) and started putting sooty prints on the
radiator and on the mirror in the sitting room.
Q. Did he encourage anyone else to do that? A. Yes, his
daughter Maria, who was five.
Q. Do you recall one night about music, about loud music?
A. Yes, he recorded something from the TV and played it
quite loudly late at night.
Q. What sort of music was it? A. I think it was rock music or
pop music.
Q. Was he previously interested in pop music? A. No, not at
all
Q. Did he previously play it all night or loud at night? A. No.
Q. Did you ever see him taking pills? A. Yes, I saw him
taking, I believe, sleeping pills once in the kitchen.
Q. Have you visited him since his arrest; that is in prison?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. How do you find him now? A. I find him very well now, like
he was when I first - before he went to Cyprus.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON: Like he was before he went to Cyprus?
A. Yes.
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. TEMPLE
Q. There is very little that I want to ask you, Mr. Koupparis.
Would you describe yourself as being close to your brother?
A. Reasonably close.
Q. About average? A. Yes, about average.
Q. Just remind me, when did your brother come back to this
country from Cyprus? A. Do you mean just lately?
Q. Yes, before his arrest. A. Some time in February of '87, I
think.
Q. In fact mid March. A. Yes.
Q. All I want to ask you is this: what was the time gap between
you seeing him in mid March and before that? A. Mid march -
sorry?
Q. He came back to this country in mid march 1987. When had you
last seen him? A. That was three years when he was over in
Cyprus.
Q. When was that? A. I was about 15 he went over to Cyprus.
Q. That would have been the early eighties? A. Yes, he went
to Cyprus when I was 15.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON: When were you born? A. In 1969.
Q. So that would be 1984? A. Yes.
MR. TEMPLE: Did you go out with him when he got back to London
in March 1987? A. Yes, I believe he did.
Q. Quite a lot, did you not? A. A few times.
Q. Went down with him to the West Country? A. Yes.
Q. Did he discuss various business ideas with you at all?
A. Not really, just a pop group.
Q. During the period of March to May 1987, was there any
discussion within the family as to whether or not Panos
should see a doctor? A. Not to my knowledge.
RE-EXAMINED BY MR. BECKMAN
Q. You were asked whether you were average close to your
brother. Have you read any books of statistics of how close
people are to their brothers and sisters in the United
Kingdom? A. No, I have not.
(The witness withdrew)
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