Ref: A00-300995 Case No. 871626 Macpherson II
Volume I, Pages 13-23, Thursday 8th June, 1989
(In the presence of the jury)
ALEXANDRA MAJSZAZYK: Sworn
Examined by Mr. Temple
Q. What are your full names? A. Alexandra Majszazyk.
Q. Miss or Mrs? A. Miss.
Q. By whom are you presently employed? A. ICC Limited.
Q. Were you employed by ICC in 1987? A. No.
Q. Who were you working for then? A. Alcom Limited.
Q. For how long had you worked for Alcom? A. For twelve
years.
Q. Were you in fact secretary to the managing director[a]? A. I
was.
Q. As far as Alcom was concerned, can you give the Court an
indication as to their principal type of business?
A. Electronics, communications, surveillance and counter-
surveillance equipment.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON: Electronics and counter-surveillance?
A. Yes, surveillance and counter-surveillance equipment.
MR. TEMPLE: I want to ask you about this defendant, Panos
Koupparis. Had he ever worked for Alcom? A. Not directly
employed by Alcom.
Q. When did you first meet him? A. Back in the late seventies,
early eighties.
Q. Although you say he did not work directly for Alcom, was his
work indirectly connected with Alcom? A. Yes.
Q. In what way? A. He was working for us on a freelance
basis.
Q. So we can appreciate the position, supposing he had secured
an order from a customer, would Alcom provide the goods?
A. Yes, indeed.
Q. Would he be paid on commission, something like that?
A. The financial arrangements I wasn't aware of.
Q. I want to jump ahead in terms of time and did you again see
Panos Koupparis in 1987? A. Yes.
Q. When you met him in 1987, were you aware as to whether or not
he was still involved with Alcom? A. At that time he
wasn't involved with Alcom at all.
Q. Did you know with which companies he was involved? A. No.
Q. Does the name Elscan mean anything to you? A. It is a
company he had before he came to us.
Q. About what period of time are we talking? A. That was the
late seventies, early eighties.
Q. Were you aware whether Mr. Koupparis had any interests in
Cyprus at all? A. Family only.
Q. I want to ask you about particular matters concerning
7th April 1987. Did you receive a telephone call during the
course of that day? A. I did.
Q. From whom? A. Eventually I found out it was Mr. Koupparis.
Q. To this question why was it that you used the qualification
"eventually"? A. Because at the beginning of the
conversation he had a unit that disguised his voice.
Q. Would the description of such a unit be a frequency shifter?
A. Yes.
Q. Again without going into any detail, how does a frequency
shifter work - not the technical details, I mean what is its
purpose? A. To disguise the voice.
Q. When you came to realise that it was Mr. Koupparis, what did
he want of you? What was the object of his 'phone call?
A. He just wanted to make known he is in London.
Q. After that initial 'phone call, did you see him that same
day? A. Yes, he came to the offices in the evening.
Q. Whereabouts are the offices? A. Edgeware [sic] Road.
Q. Was he on his own? A. Yes.
Q. What did he have to say to you? A. He was talking generally
about computers.
Q. Did he invite you out for a meal? A. Yes.
Q. Did you accept? A. Yes.
Q. Did you go? A. Yes.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON: Dinner? A. That is right.
MR. TEMPLE: During the course of dinner, did he give you any
indication as to who he was now working for? A. Yes, the
Cypriot government.
Q. Did he give you any other indication or any detail as to
what he was doing? A. No.
Q. Did he mention any other subject matter as to what he was
doing? A. Yes, he said he was researching into a cure for
AIDS.
Q. Finally, as far as dinner is concerned, did he mention any
members of his family? A. Yes.
Q. In what context? A. He mentioned that his baby brother was
acting as bodyguard for him.
Q. Were you in fact familiar with his family? A. No.
Q. You do not know to which brother he was referring? A. He
mentioned the name "Jason".
Q. So much for the dinner on 7th April. Over the next couple
of days or so, was there any further contact between the two
of you and if so, how? A. Yes, by 'phone.
Q. Was that just a question of keeping contact, as it were?
A. Yes.
Q. Three days later, on 10th April, was there a further 'phone
call from him to you? A. There was.
Q. What did he want? A. He asked me to go out to dinner with
him because he wanted to take me to a business dinner to
secure a contract.
Q. Did you accept? A. Yes.
Q. Did he arrive in your offices at about half past six that
evening? A. Yes, he did.
Q. I think you in your turn had a secretary? A. I did.
Q. Vanessa Jarrett? A. Yes.
Q. When he arrived did he also invite Vanessa Jarrett along?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Where did the three of you go? A. Initially to a regular
trade showroom near Gt. Portland Street, and then to a
restaurant in the East End.
Q. Taking matters shortly with regard to the restaurant, did you
play any part in the conversation there? A. No.
Q. Why was that? A. Because they were speaking in Greek.
Q. Was Vanessa in the same position? A. Correct.
Q. Finally, I would like you to deal with Wednesday, 29th April:
did you again have a telephone call from Panos Koupparis?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. About what did he call you? A. He wanted to bring some
people to our demonstration room to show them some equipment.
Q. Would that be surveillance type equipment? A. Yes.
Q. Did he arrive at about a quarter to seven that evening?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. With whom? A. With his wife.
Q. I think a member of the family? A. Yes, and his brother.
MR. JUSTICE MACPHERSON: What did he call his wife? A. "Keikie".
MR. TEMPLE: I am shortening matters a little because the
position is that later on that same evening two men arrived?
A. Yes.
Q. Who were due, as it were, to listen to the demonstration?
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. Was the demonstration duly given? A. Yes.
Q. Using your own technical expertise, what was the standard of
the presentation given by Mr. Koupparis in the sense of being
accurate or inaccurate? A. He was being totally inaccurate
on descriptions of items.
Q. Did you feel it your place to intervene at all? A. No, I
was in fact asked not to say anything.
Q. I think that was the last time that you saw him. A. Yes.
Q. I have asked you a number of comparatively detailed
questions. Did you make a statement to the police about
these matters in May 1987? A. Yes.
Q. Have you had an opportunity to refresh your memory from the
statement before coming into court? A. Yes, I have.
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. BECKMAN
Q. How do you pronounce your name so I do not get it wrong and
offend you? A. Mazhick.
Q. I have one over Mr. Temple then. You deal with surveillance
and a counter service. Do you sell to people who have
surveillance and people who want counter-surveillance on the
other side? A. I was never employed on the sales side.
Q. Do you have counter-counter-surveillance? A. I wouldn't
know.
Q. When he first rang through to speak to you with the voice
box, I take it what happens is that the voice box changes the
voice to such an extent it might seem to be someone else?
A. Yes.
Q. Therefore you can pretend to be someone else? A. That is
correct.
Q. Presumably you can turn it up so you sound like a female if
you are a male and vice versa? A. Yes.
Q. Who did he pretend to be with the voice box first? A. He
tried to - he kept asking me, "Do you know who I am?" and
kept asking me questions over again and - I used to speak to
a lot of people and it is very difficult to know everybody's
voice who 'phoned in so I said, "No, and I'm not really in a
position to keep playing games", so in the end I got annoyed.
Q. Briefly, as far as you were concerned, here was someone -
when using the voice box was the person changing voice all
the time or keeping one voice? A. Keeping one voice as far
as I knew.
Q. And effectively, as far as you were concerned, playing games?
A. Yes.
Q. You had a job to do and you got tired with the game?
A. Yes.
Q. And said, "Come on, who are you?" A. Yes.
Q. You appreciated that it was someone playing a trick whatever
bad sense of humour they may have? A. Yes.
Q. As soon as you said, "Who are you?" there was no problem at
all finding out exactly who it was? A. Well, if I recall
correctly, he did call once my secretary and wouldn't leave a
name but she recognised the voice before she put the call
through to me that it was the same person and then he did
tell me his name.
Q. In any event, you know who he is and would have known who he
was the moment you saw him? A. Of course, yes.
Q. So there can be no doubt about it, we have this voice box so
there is nothing as far as you are concerned, as far as you
are personally concerned, sinister about the use of his voice
box. A. Not me personally, no.
Q. As far as you are concerned it was a joke in bad taste or a
joke at the wrong time? A. Exactly.
Q. So far as the names were concerned, he used the name Miller
with you when he booked the first dinner? A. Yes.
Q. In using the name Miller when he booked the first dinner, it
was manifestly clear to you it was Panos Koupparis using the
name Miller? A. Yes.
Q. No doubt about it? A. No.
Q. You went out for dinner on the first occasion with him; where
did you go? A. The Inter Continental.
Q. Did you have some communication problem with him on that
occasion or did you speak English? A. No, we spoke English.
Q. Was it that evening or - it would not be the next evening
because it was all Greek, literally. On that evening did he
talk about various war things? A. Sorry?
Q. Did he tell you he was working for the government? A. Yes.
Q. In what way? A. He said he was working on some secret work
and they were trying to find him and he was trying to keep a
low profile, but he didn't go into detail.
Q. He did not tell you what the secret work was about? A. No.
Q. What about doing research for AIDS? A. He didn't go into
detail about that either.
Q. What did he tell you? A. He just said he was doing research
trying to find a cure for AIDS.
Q. First of all he is doing some undercover work for the Cyprus
Government, then he is doing some research about AIDS?
A. Yes.
Q. I think you also told my learned friend that his baby brother
was his bodyguard as well. A. Yes.
Q. Was this --- A. It was during the conversation; I
wouldn't - couldn't tell you which came first.
Q. Any other such things of that nature? A. Only about ---
Q. A trifle out of the ordinary? A. I asked him why he used
the name Miller and he said that he has got, I think, seven
different identities with passports to go with them.
Q. That is why he used the name Miller? A. Yes, it's one of
his identities.
Q. There is no doubt about the man you had in front of you was
Panos Koupparis? A. No.
Q. Then we have the next occasion when you go out for dinner
and he takes you and Vanessa out for dinner? A. Yes.
Q. During the whole of that evening speaks Greek with the other
people? A. Yes.
Q. Leaving you totally out of the conversation? A. Yes.
Q. I hope at least the food was good. A. It was.
Q. Then there is the occasion when he is going to do business
with these other men? A. Yes.
Q. He is selling your equipment? A. No, he is not selling our
equipment.
Q. What is the arrangement? A. Showing our equipment.
Q. Who actually sells it? You sell it? A. My managing
director.
Q. The equipment would have to come from you? A. Yes.
Q. If effectively he had succeeded in obtaining a successful
demonstration, your company would sell the equipment either
to him directly or to whatever? A. That would be something
between Mr. Koupparis and my managing director.
Q. Your company owned the equipment, so the result of a
successful demonstration would mean your company would sell
the equipment? A. That's right.
Q. Did he at some stage describe that as being the deal of a
lifetime? A. That was before he went out to dinner for the
second time and was discussing whatever he was discussing in
Greek.
Q. That is a different deal? A. That is the deal he said
would be the deal of a lifetime.
Q. Was it some deal that related to the gentlemen coming round
for the demonstration? A. No.
Q. Or was it a different deal? A. He didn't mention something
about the gentlemen coming to see the equipment; they seemed
to be a different thing.
Q. The other deal of a lifetime, that related to computers or
something? A. No, that related to the conversation which I
didn't understand, which was in Greek.
Q. When you had this demonstration of the equipment at your
premises that you told us, which effectively you would sell
if anything came about, his description of the equipment and
the capacities of the equipment was quite wrong? A. Yes.
Q. That being so, I take it that you, with your expertise, no
doubt immediately thought it was wrong? A. Yes.
Q. You could see through it straight away? A. Yes.
Q. Whatever the reason is, you took no part in the conversation
with the other men? A. I was asked by Mr. Koupparis not to
say anything while the gentlemen were in the demonstration
room.
Q. That may be so, I accept that, but whatever the conditions -
that is why I introduce the fact - the net result could be a
sale for your company? A. It could have been.
Page 1.23 (Continues on Next)
Q. I take it your company has the sole rights in respect of that
machinery? A. Yes, they do.
RE-EXAMINED BY MR. TEMPLE
Q. Do you remember that he told you he had seven different
identities and passports to go with them? A. Yes.
Q. Did he ever show you the passports? A. No, he did not.
(The witness withdrew)
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Notes:
[a] John Alexis MARDAS was managing director of Alcom Ltd.
His statement was read to the jury but all references to him have
been removed from the transcript.